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Morning Joe

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  MSNBC    Morning Joe    News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers  
   and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.  

    January 17, 2013
    3:00 - 5:59am PST  

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but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? at the top of the show, we asked you, why are you awake?
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producer john tower has at least one answer. >> we have carol in from gree greensbo greensboro, north carolina. i love the show. i've been an early riser forever. as long as i'm up, i might as well watch the news and learn something. so here i am watching cnbc. >> rub your eyes and grab the coffee because i am on msnbc. stay tuned because "morning joe" starts right now. there's a lot of tragedy here. there's a lot of sorrow here. but the thing i am most sad of, sad about, is -- sorry -- that the single most trusting human being i've ever met will never be able to trust in the same way again in his life. that's an incredible tragedy.
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>> oh, dear lord. >> i am completely confused. >> oh, dear lord. >> top of the hour, 6:00 on the east coast. good morning. it's thursday, january 17th. my mom's birthday's coming up. don't let me forget. with us, we have the president on the council on foreign relations, richard haass, very appropriate. what we're about to talk about. msnbc political analyst, richard wolffe, and in washington, nbc news capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell. >> morning. >> kelly -- >> hang in there for a second. >> hang in there for a minute. i don't know if i told you. >> no. >> no, this is hard. >> no. >> last week -- >> huh-uh. >> hold on. i'm going to be strong. i was behaving the way i did last week. >> oh, no. please don't do that. >> we were friends for a long time. willie knows her.
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her name was annie. >> a little redhead, curly redhead. >> no longer with us. i can't do this. >> is that what the reason was? >> holy cow, willie, what happened? this story -- this story -- >> it's -- >> holy cow. >> where do we begin? >> i'm sure somebody is disturbed but i don't know who. >> this guy is really disturbed. >> first things first. >> explain. set this story up, man. what's notre dame, they're defending this guy? >> he might be disturbed, too. >> what about the father? he talks about these kids meeting. i was going -- >> stanford. >> -- to be his father and her father-in-law. i guess that's not happening now. help us out here. >> first things first, who is manti te'o, all-american linebacker for notre dame, the most tradition-rich football program in all the country. the yankees, the cowboys of college football. he was the star. >> this guy was going to win the heisman, man. >> he won every defensive award, best player on defense, second in the heisman, unheard of for a
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defensive player. and part of his story throughout the season was that in september of last year at the beginning of the season, his grandmother died, and then his girlfriend died within hours of each other. >> heartbreaking story. >> the reports range from an hour to a couple of days. >> you were watching and you cried. >> can i just say, my son, joey, said there's something wrong with this guy. he told me this months ago. >> joey is kind of wise. >> i was watching espn over the holidays. because alabama was on, the story. and they tell this story. and then i got a call the next morning. and it was like no, no, no! and i started tearing up. and i was like -- and then they showed him running onto the field. and i was, like, how did the guy do that the week after he found out that his grandmother and his girlfriend died, and then they went on to say he played for her the day they buried her, man.
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it was the most remarkable story. and i actually called joey up. i said, you're sick, man. this guy is a guy of tremendous -- i'm just -- to let people know. >> how taken in. >> and guess what? i was taken in. fans across america were taken in. >> you wanted to be taken in. >> oh, shut up. is that how you all -- what does that mean? is that what you say in great britain to sound deeper? >> most importantly, espn fell for it, cbs news. >> everybody, "sports illustrated." >> nbc, everybody fell for it, man. so what happened? >> one of the guys, real quickly, one of the guys who interviewed him, the interview you're talking about on espn, ge gene, he said later on he tried
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to find a death certificate, an obituary, some record of this young woman having died, and he couldn't find it. >> so for people that haven't seen it, fill them in. >> and this all comes, we should point out, from deadspin, the sports website. >> they are amazing. >> november of 2009. manti te'o and lennay kekua meet after the stanford game. they become a couple around the same time early in 2012, around the same time she was injured reportedly in a car accident. september 11th of 2012, kekua and his grandmother die. december 6th he receives a call from her phone. >> just to explain how everybody was taken in on this hoax and how sick of a hoax it was that he was playing along with it, so everybody finds out that they both die. suddenly all of the notre dame students start wearing --
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>> leis. >> leis. he gives this tearful statement at a pep rally saying, now i know why i came to notre dame. after the michigan game, michigan fans rose to their feet. notre dame fans rose to their feet. the coach, the notre dame coach, they all just -- they just -- it was sick, man. and they all wallowed in it, and he let this go on and on and on. as did notre dame. >> so this boils down to a question. do you believe that he was a victim of an elaborate and cruel and awful hoax, as notre dame's athletic director laid out last night in a press conference at 8:00 eastern time? >> right. >> or did manti te'o took this thing up with the help of other people as the deadspin report -- >> by the way, deadspin says he knows the guy that cooked up the report. >> did he cook this up? and then if you believe that, the question is why? why would he go that far? >> willie, even after he knew
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that this was a hoax, the girl called back and said she was alive -- >> right. >> -- he still went out there saying, i hate cancer. it took my girlfriend. i mean, come on. >> there's no way. >> and the father. what about his father about the time they met and he knew that they were going to be -- you know, he said i thought that i was going to be her father-in-law. >> get me to the coach defending who in that sound bite that came in. i know you need to tell the story. >> and this is what's really disturbing. that's the athletic director defending this. and why would they do it, willie, when they know this is going to keep unraveling and only get uglier? >> he says they launched their own investigation. and it's not going to be made public, for one thing. but he laid out -- >> those are my favorite. >> he laid out a few headlines yesterday which was that this was cooked up by somebody else and that he was a victim, essentially. te'o put out a statement saying he's embarrassed by the whole thing. he's embarrassed to talk about it. but he said he developed a relationship. and as that athletic director said last night, it was purely
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online and over the phone. >> what about the sound bite where he said he was talking -- you know, he was getting the support from her family? was that online, too? like he had an online relationship with a woman and her parents and siblings? like never human -- he made that -- okay. >> as "the new york times" was reporting this morning, he told the story and let others tell the story of how he would be on the phone with this girl all night as she was fighting leukemia. and whenever she would hear him breathing on the phone, she would stabilize in her coma. there ain't no getting out of this. >> face time or just type? >> by the way, i would like to say to my friends at notre dame who i love, the same thing i said to my friends at penn state. another institution i loved early on. you'd better handle this up front right. i am not comparing this to years
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and years of systematic abuse, but on the public relations front, willie, they'd better not defend this guy. if they have information, they'd better get out in front of it fast because notre dame is one of the most remarkable institutions in america, and they can't be taken down by this lie. >> i agree with you that it's hard to believe manti te'o couldn't have known over that period of time. he's a smart young man. but i do go back to the question of motive. why would he go to these lengths just to get a little sympathy so he could win a heisman trophy? man, that's a long way to go, and it's a lot of lies to be thinking about and covering over months and years. why would he do this? that's my question. >> and you look at the situation -- the scene you were setting with the audience standing up and everyone, it became a public relations story that was apparently quite positive and brought people in and became a cbs report during the sports coverage. this is bigger than just some
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terrible drama between a few people. the institutions involved. >> especially -- >> used it. >> -- one of the most important -- >> so is cbs. >> -- collegiate institutions in america gets dragged down by this, richard haass. why don't you give our friends at notre dame some advice on what to do moving forward. >> it's so good we have you here as the president on the council on foreign relations. >> because they haven't handled this very well. they've known about this for a long time. >> it's not the crime, but the cover-up. so whatever this young man did, why he did it, it's hard to believe he wasn't part of it, but notre dame has a lot bigger equities. its got its reputations. it stands for class along with stanford, penn state in the past, college football programs. athletic and academic excellence and integrity. they have really got to investigate this and find out what happened. you don't want to besmirch what really is one of the great reputations in college sports. and quite honestly, it has
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something to do with the institution. this is going to go beyond the football field. and the athletic director got off to an awfully bad start. he did not stop digging. >> that was a horrible start last night, willie. and we'd better see a leader of notre dame come out today and very quickly distance themselves from this young man because this story has unraveled. >> he did suggest at that press conference last night that manti te'o himself may speak today. so obviously there will be a ton of questions for him. we'll have the managing editor of deadspin, again, that's the website that launched this incredible investigation, did some incredible reporting, and we'll get a little deeper into it a little later. other news, president obama plans to introduce legislation next week calling for the biggest changes to gun laws this country has seen in two decades. yesterday the president surrounded by children who wrote him letters after newtown urged congress to take action on a number of proposals including universal background checks for anyone buying a gun, restoring
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the ban on military-style assault weapons and limiting magazines to ten rounds, giving law enforcement additional tools to prosecute gun crimes and improving the mental health system for young people. >> so let's look at all of those items up there. richard wolffe, every one of them has overwhelming support of the american people. universal background checks. 85% of americans support that. restoring a ban on milita military-style assault weapons. that's a 60/40 proposition now. limiting magazines to ten rounds. almost 7 in 10 americans support that. additional tools for law enforcement. you know that's got to be an 80/20, 90/10 issue. the same with improving mental health services. i bring these numbers up only to say, once again, that my republican party, like notre dame, better tread very lightly. they'd better be very careful. they have wandered in and followed the nra whose made some
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horrible pr mistakes over the past month. republicans better be careful and think twice before they make their next move. >> right. >> remember, one of the reasons the numbers are so high on background checks is because most people believe that those background checks already happened. >> right. >> they don't think that's a change in the law. >> right. >> so you're on really weak ground when people haven't got a clue and they actually support something they think is law. so the education part of it is one aspect of it. but you've also got the sheer power, the emotion of the 9/11 families style approach where you've got the sandy hook families coming in, it's very hard to oppose -- it's not about the president. you've got -- it's not even about bloomberg's money that's going to go into the advertising. the emotional force of the sandy hook families is just like it was with the 9/11 families. and republicans have got to face up to that. frankly, democrats have to face up and grow a spine here as well. they have run away from the gun
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debate for 20 years or so because it's helped them get into power in some states. >> by the way, there are 30 to 40 democrats in the house, too, will also fight any reasonable, rational reforms. you know, one of the moments yesterday, richard, that i thought was really telling, i thought one of the president's strongest moments is when he said if you have a congressman or congresswoman that supports assault weapons, ask them why. see, that's where the extremists, that's where the survivalists lose this argument. why do you need an assault weapon? why do you need a high-capacity magazine? you start talking to them, and it always goes back to the same thing. always. it's either one, i like target practice. it's fun. that's number one. that's certainly not a reason to protect that right. or number two, they say, after much prodding, because i'm
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afraid one day the government may come after me, and i will need to use my assault weapon on u.s. soldiers that are coming to my house. they don't say it exactly that way, but that's what it always boils down to. and that's -- republicans need to understand that at the end of the day, that's just a losing argument. >> well, it's a slippery slope argument. and the danger for that for the nra essentially by saying any gun control is unacceptable, then it puts itself outside the substantive argument, and that's actually a risky strategy. i actually thought yesterday was an interesting day in american politics. i thought it was a really big, bold, comprehensive proposal by the president which is good because it gives you a narrative. if the problems are that big, you actually need a big proposal to match it. it also gives you some room for compromise. there's a great line in robert caro's latest biography of johnson. they're talking about how big to be on civil rights and one of the so-called wise men goes to johnson and basically said that's not practical. it's a worthy cause but it's a
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lost cause. and johnson turns around and goes, what the hell's the presidency for? i actually thought yesterday was an interesting day. it was one of the days where compare it, say, to health care. this was a big idea and the president went out there with an ambitious proposal. the question, though, in american politics now is whether he can match the intensity of the nra. what matters is not simply 60/40, 70/30 in polls. you know that. can he mobilize on a sustained basis? people who really care about this issue? >> and this is another reason why it's such a game changer because so many people have been engaged by the sandy hook massacre, whatever the nra spins, people that want sensible gun safety laws are going to spend three, four, five times as much. mika, also the argument that there's a slippery slope and if you get rid of these military-style assault weapons and the magazines, the high-capacity magazines, that you somehow don't love or support the second amendment,
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well, that would suggest the same of ronald reagan, of antonin scalia, of clarence thomas, of justice roberts, of samuel alito, all of these hardcore conservatives who have said that the second amendment is not about protecting somebody's right to have military-style assault weapons. >> so the question is, you've got the power of the nra versus the power of the emotional force, richard, that you were talking about. and kelly, the president outlined 23 executive orders. tell us about those. but first, what do you make and what are you hearing on capitol hill about the possibility of this legislation as it stands, as he presented it, going through? >> reporter: well, one of the things i think we really have to watch are senate democrats because we know that the house, run by republicans, is not going to jump to take any specific action. speaker boehner's office says they're going to wait and see, what does the senate do and then consider it. so that's sort of a real signal
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that there won't be any action on the house side. so if you look at senate democrats, what are they prepared to do? and from talking to people what we expect is over the next couple of weeks, it won't be instantaneous. they're going to meet as a group and try to make a big decision about should this be a comprehensive package, the kind of sweeping sort of discussion the president put forward, or should they try to take pieces? and i think there will be a lot of pressure to look at it in terms of taking pieces, going one step at a time. and the thing that seems to come up most often, we're beginning to see consensus around that universal background checks idea that you were talking about, that there are republicans who will support that, there are democrats who are known to be in sort of the gun community, willing to look at that. and then when you consider things like how can they address funding for mental health issues, that's one thing. you certainly hear conservatives talking about, looking at underlying causes. and we're really going to have to measure how much public support for some of the changes the president's talked about can impact these lawmakers, many of
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whom believe that apart from the intense emotion of these days, that there are constitutional issues here, there are things to cause them to go slowly. so we'll have to watch this. but really senate democrats will be a key. >> i agree with that, and i feel like we talk about spending and how it's so important to republicans and then you feel like when push comes to shove, they actually don't want to be the ones to say it. with guns, democrats better grow a pair and make sure they stand by everything that they believe on this. we also talked about the nra. they responded to the president in writing. and they said, in part, this. "attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. only honest, law-abiding gun owners will be affected, and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevitability of more tragedy." meanwhile, the white house says the new nra ad that we showed you yesterday, that brings the president's own children into
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the debate is, quote, repugnant and cowardly. the nra offered this explanation to nbc's andrea mitchell. >> children of presidents have been off limits for decades. there has been an understanding that we don't talk particularly about the minor children of presidents. >> but nobody was talking about his children. >> the video very explicitly -- >> nobody was doing that. >> david keene has a tough job. wayne lapierre and goes out there and does what he does, and david keene has basically cleanup operations. it's the toughest job in washington right now because they keep -- they keep making mistakes. >> two points. if the white house does what norah says, i think it's a big mistake. this is to allow to vote for background checks, i think the white house would make a big mistake if thooed allow this to be broken into bits. this is a moment to go big.
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it's not a moment to go small. secondly, talking about the nra thing there, this actually has got bigger stakes even than gun control. this has become one of the first tests in recent american politics of special interests versus the national interest. so this is not just about now gun control. this is a real question about whether today's washington can take on wealthy, powerful special interests. today it's the nra. and the budget debate, it's going to be other groups. >> aarp. >> this is an interesting test case about whether this congress and this administration are able to stand up to narrow interests. as big as the gun-control debate is, the stakes are bigger than just that. >> and it's a great test, as i've said, mika, for my republican party. >> yeah, it is, and for the democrats, actually, in terms of the gun debate. kelly, stay with us. coming up, we'll talk to former senator jim demint, nbc's tom brokaw and reverend al sharpton and the creative director of american "vogue"
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magazine, grace codington will be joining us. that's really cool. up next, the top stories in the "politico playbook." first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> mika, it's a big deal when it snows in the deep south. and it's happening this morning. mississippi waking up to snow to the delight of millions of children through the southeast. there's more on the way. look out, virginia, and even north carolina. right now jackson, mississippi, with about an inch of snow on the ground. and the snow is beginning to rain changing to snow around tupelo. this is a shot of mississippi. so you can get an idea there. if it snows like this in mississippi, we're going to get school delays. as i mentioned, it's going to spread. we have winter storm warnings in ten different states. mostly hovered around the richmond to raleigh to asheville areas. this is where we'll see the highest totals. atlanta, you're on the south side of this, maybe a little snow on the backside. washington, d.c., same for you. you're on the northern fringe. but it's really in the north carolina/virginia areas later today into tonight. and then tomorrow morning, it will end. the rest of the country, you look just fine. no travel trouble.
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just cold up in minneapolis. but get ready, north carolina and virginia, this time tomorrow morning you're going to be shoveling. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. this happy couple used capital one venture miles
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fly any airline, any flight, anytime. double miles you can actually use. what a coincidence? what's in your wallet? [ all screaming ] watch the elbows ladies. ♪ only you know all right. time to take a look at the "morning papers." "the new york times," american citizens are among the dozens of people being held hostage standoff at a natural gas facility in eastern algeria. heavily armed islamic militants linked to al qaeda breached the walls of the compound on wednesday morning. officials say at least two people were killed during the raid. the algerian military says it has the oil compound surrounded, adding it will not negotiate with the militants. and from our parade of
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papers, "the seattle times" says the faa has temporarily grounded the boeing 787 dreamliner after a rash of technical issues. this is so bad for boeing. including battery problems and small fires on flights here and abroad. willie, is that bad? >> that's bad. >> when your plane catches on fire at 30,000 feet? >> i'm notaeronautics expert. >> only small fires, come on. >> richard. wow! what did he have this morning? >> it's the first time in nearly 40 years -- i don't think he used that line -- that's what he said -- 40 years of the faa has taken such serious action against an aircraft. but if given the all-clear, the planes could be back in the air within days. i'm just wondering, willie, if they catch on fire, man, what good are they? >> there's no good. they're no darn good. that's crazy. >> are the wings going to fall off next? >> gosh. let's move to "politico," shall
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we? joining us now with the "politico playbook," the executive editor there, mr. victim vandehei. good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> we're doing okay this morning. >> ask him about -- >> you think? what do you think about manti? was he in on it or not? >> it's one hell of a story. i wouldn't want to be that guy. >> were you part of this hoax? >> no, no, no. >> i definitely was not. >> look at him. >> part of that hoax. leave the guy alone. the poor man had to make up a girlfriend, for crying out loud. now you guys are beating up on him. >> he did this in high school. my girlfriend goes to east. she's out of town right now. >> his date to the prom. >> i'd go to the prom, but my girlfriend goes to east. east oshkosh. >> or the old, i met her at camp. she doesn't live here. >> exactly. wow. i wonder, should the packers, then, if this is okay, should
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the packers draft this freak? >> why would you not draft him for it? he's a football player, for crying out loud. he's not a saint. >> did you not see the alabama game? i could give you a lot of reasons not to draft him. >> bada bing. >> jack lew moving on to treasury. that brings dennis mcdonough into the spotlight. what do we know about him, and how will he compare to chiefs of staff past? >> i think the most interesting thing to compare him to would be right after the 2010 elections when they brought in daly which signaled that they wanted to change their approach inside the white house, wanted to reach out to business, wanted to try to reach out to republicans, have better relationships with the house and senate. what this pick signals is that it's going to be a more combative white house, continue to be a pretty insular white house. i think some of the bellyaching speci internally, it's another white guy in leadership role inside the white house. it signals to me an approach where they're ready for combat. we see that in the legislation
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they're talking about for the next year that he wants to be pushing. and that also just the reality that the next two years are not going to be a pleasant two years for relationships between the white house and congress. nobody's expecting a grand bargain anymore. i think the chance -- they had a good chance to have one a couple months ago. they have almost no chance to get one now. the reality is it's going to be grind it out for the next couple years. he has great contacts, great relationships internally in this white house. and that in all likelihood some kind of foreign policy controversy will take over and dominate the second term like happens in most second terms. and he's very well versed in those areas. >> kelly, dennis mcdonough is probably known to most americans for his involvement on foreign policy, the raid to get osama bin laden, the surge in afghanistan. what about his relationship, though, with congress which will be more important now? >> reporter: well, when you're in a chief of staff position, you're the ultimate gatekeeper. and so a relationship with congress can center on a couple things. we saw bill daly when he was
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serving the president, had a different kind of style, that didn't have a lot of interaction with congress. rahm emanuel who had been of congress, a real understanding of how the body works. and to it will be interesting to see, especially because so much of that chief of staff role is about sort of the domestic playing field, how he will bring his skill set. so it's really about management. it's really about trying to keep the president on task and to not get distracted by things that might be coming over from the hill in terms of being that person who has got to keep the president's attention focused. it's an interesting role, and i think that you'll get probably a lot of support from people who have known him over the years. one thing to point out is next week we'll begin, not only after the inaugural, that next big push we'll see john kerry's big confirmation hearing coming up. that will be critical as well as secretary clinton coming to the hill to talk about benghazi. so sort of the next term key roles will begin to unfold as we see confirmation hearings actually beginning in just a matter of days now.
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spl >> very busy time. kelly o'donnell in washington, thanks so much. jim, anything more to say about manti te'o? one more chance. >> you guys have hit him hard enough. i do think it's one of the most fas nacinating sports stories. you mentioned lance armstrong is one hell of a happy guy today because he doesn't look like the biggest fool in sports. >> good point. >> thanks. coming up next -- unravel -- >> seriously, how many imaginary girlfriends did he have? >> manti? >> no, vandehei. >> oh, jim. >> he claims to be married to a woman named autumn. we're not sure. >> do we have any proof? >> gorgeous. someone sent me a picture. >> someone document this for us. >> it seems kind of impossible. >> you notice they're never together. we're going right to the source in our next segment to unravel this mystery aren't manti te'o. dave briggs is here from abc sports and tom scocca is the managing editor of deadspin.
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we'll comb through all this and get to the bottom of it when we come back.
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>> reporter: last september his beloved grandmother died of cancer. and on the same day, just hours later, his girlfriend, lennay
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kekua, died after a long battle with leukemia. >> te'o's girlfriend who was battling leukemia had died. >> reporter: emotional week, losing your grandmother and your girlfriend on tuesday. how would you describe your emotions on the field tonight? >> i mean, they were with me, you know. i mean, i couldn't do it without them. i couldn't do it without the support of my family and my girlfriend's family. >> every single thing about this, until that day in the first week of december, was real to manti. there was no suspicion that it wasn't, no belief that it might not be, and so the pain was real. the grief was real. the affection was real. >> willie, the operative phrase, by the way, for kids that are just waking up this morning and polishing off their notre dame helmet, my girlfriend's family. on the field as a going-off, said my family supported, my girlfriend's family has support the me.
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is there, like, a twitter family? seriously, come on, man. >> we're going to the source now. joining us now, managing editor of deadspin, the man that broke the story, tom scocca, also the cohost of the new show "the crossover" on nbc sports network, dave briggs. >> it's going to be huge. >> starts the 28th. >> it's going to be like "american idol." >> just like "idol." i'm play the role of seacrest. >> i see you're already doing that. that's good. >> with the seacrest hair? that's my goal. >> leave the hair alone. >> we've also got brian shactman at the flash cam. tom, first of all, an incredible piece of reporting. the world stopped for a minute when this broke last night. we'll get into the details, but first of all where does this begin for deadspin? who tipped off your organization first that there might be something fishy here? >> it started with an e-mail. we just got a message from somebody i think in hawaii saying that they had heard that this girlfriend didn't exist.
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and we get a lot of tips. and we get a lot of weird tips. many of them, you know, a lot of time it turns out that there actually isn't an nfl coach in jail for dui at the moment. they couldn't find her, which is weird to not find someone. it started out proving a negative that this person -- >> how far back does that go, tom? when did that first e-mail come to you? >> it was last friday. so it was five days, start to finish, putting it all together. >> and did you all at deadspin do what a lot of people apparently didn't do and go look for death certificates, obituaries, her family, for example? >> yeah. you know, we put a couple of reporters on it, on multiple tracks. and so we had jack dickey was the main reporter looking into
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records, for instance, in an obituary in this widely reported death and not finding anything. we didn't find any death records. the story was that his grandmother and girlfriend died on the same day. and his grandmother has a death record, and his girlfriend didn't. >> although various outlets have the death of the girlfriend different days. the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. joe, i know you seem to believe that manti created this entire fictional story himself, which i don't think he created lennay. i don't think he created the profile. >> why does he say on national television that i've gotten support from my girlfriend's family? >> there was reportedly a system to contact him on twitter. >> didn't they say he knew the guy that concocted this whole thing? >> the guy that we believe was behind the twitter account for this girlfriend who didn't exist is apparently a friend or a distant relation of his. >> but that guy could have been tricking him.
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>> absolutely. >> and it could be something very, very deeply sick. and he might be in a very -- he may have a problem. and this is not funny. that's why i said we should be really careful, and we shouldn't laugh too hard -- >> because there's a fictional person dead here. that's what seth meyers joked last night. >> exactly. but it may be something he concocted in his mind and truly believed. having said that, i also think joe's take on it is equally as possible. that this was -- >> it is. have you heard the term "catfishing"? i know you have. there's actually -- there's not just a movie and a series and a term "catfishing" is creating a fake online profile to lure someone into a fake romance. it appears that he may have been catfished. now, at what point he found out that this was not legit, at some point he had to realize there wasn't an actual woman. >> i cannot wait to watch your show. it's going to be like the one where they go around and chase
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ghosts. i heard the ghost breathe! shactman, though, not to undercut you because you are wearing red sox cufflinks. i appreciate that. but brian shactman, you've even got the father talking about when they met in hawaii. she was going to be my daughter-in-law. come on, shactman. >> we don't know the truth. i mean, this is where this strange intersection with lance armstrong. if there's one thing we learned, the sooner we come out with the real truth and the sooner manti te'o, whatever the truth is, comes out with the whole truth, the less worse -- i'm not going to say better -- the less worse it is for him, and i think that's the key. don't we learn anything from what we watch? the second thing is honestly as a journalist, it's on us. we did a terrible job here. >> "sports illustrated." >> incredible outlets did not vet the story, and we look terrible. >> so tom, let me ask you. the heavy implication of the story is that manti te'o was involved in this, and it was at least in part a creation of his
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own. but the proof is that a friend of this guy, tuiasosopo who we believe was behind it said, quote, he was 80% sure that te'o is in on it. is deadspin ready to say that manti te'o was in on this and created this and that he was not a victim of a hoax? >> that was in the context of talking to friends and family and just getting their -- you know, as honest a take we could get as to what they thought had happened. they variously thought that, you know, there's evidence that these guys were friends, you know, they have pictures together online. and between people saying that they thought that they couldn't imagine that this guy would have done this to a family member. and the fact that it went on as long as it did, that they didn't believe that he was the criminal mastermind or that manti te'o was enough of a dupe for it to have really gone on. >> that's the thing. >> and there's also just the depth of detail is the thing about it. >> yeah.
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>> what joe was saying earlier. is that this -- all these stories have all this -- this emotional detail about the depth of his relationship with her. and you just -- where did this come from? >> because of that, there's easy ways to find out if it's not true. the notre dame a.d. is a smart guy. >> apparently not. >> presumably he checked out are there phone records? if there's no phone records, there's no record. he created everything. >> you also have stories where he and friends talked about being on the phone all night with her. she could hear his breathing, and it calmed her down as she was in a coma. >> right. so part of the question is whether there was this conspiracy that they're alleging where they had rounded up some woman to talk to him on the phone and pretend to be his girlfriend to him to keep him fooled, or whether this is all -- >> if you're talking on the phone but you met someone online, why wouldn't you face time with them? >> right. we were talking about skype or face time. he says there was also a december 9th phone call in which he figured out this person
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didn't exist because they said, i'm not dead. >> well, you figure that out. >> presumably there are phone records. >> let me tell you something. >> why did he keep going with the lie? >> i know i was tearing up mid-december hearing this story, calling my son saying, you're sick for thinking this guy's not like mr. all-american. >> his son has got visions, brilliant visions. he knows things. >> my oldest boy said months ago this guy was weird. >> he was on to it. >> he was on to it. and then i call him up with the story. and that was mid-december. if you know it's a hoax, why are you going on espn and continuing to tell this lie? why do you allow this lie to continue? and he did allow this lie to continue after they knew it was a hoax. >> if he and notre dame -- he and notre dame are both standing up saying that this was a terrible thing that was done to him, you know, that he's a victim of something awful, and maybe he was. certainly very few victims profit as much from being victimized as he did up till
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now. >> yeah. >> he's a heisman finalist and a top ten pick. either way he didn't need the sympathy story. >> i just don't see the motive. common sense tells you he had to have something to do with it, but why? i keep asking myself, why would he go this far to do it? >> one possibility is that he was -- that he could have been hoaxed in the beginning and then the cancer would have been the way to get rid of her. once he found it out. that's one -- but i think -- it's so complicated that we're just going to learn more. >> how did "sports illustrated," "the new york times" and cbs -- >> how about the news organizations that are not crediting you guys after they were duped, you get the true story, and they're not i.d.'ing you. they're not giving you the credit for the reporting that you guys did that they never did. >> people have been pretty good about it on this one. >> i think because it's so big and so unprecedented. and again, but it is this issue
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about, you know, how everyone else covered this and what they did. because the biggest surprise to me, as one of the editors working on this story, was, you know, we get this tip, and it's absurd. how could this story that everyone knows not be true? so the first thing you do is you start going back to the coverage. and you look at, for instance, the "sports illustrated" story. you're looking at what do we have to disprove? what do they have about this girl that we're going to actually demonstrate this is true? and then there's nothing. >> nothing. >> read the piece at deadspin.com. amazing reporting. >> great job. >> tom scocca, thanks for coming in and explaining it. dave, congratulations on the show. "the crossover" premieres january 28th at 6:00 p.m. >> i see you didn't invite me. >> great job. we're going to be right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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we have breaking news. an algerian official tells the associated press -- and this is just crossing right now -- that 20 foreign hostages including americans have escaped from their captors. it happened after heavily armed islamic militants linked to al qaeda breached the walls of an oil compound on wednesday morning reportedly taking dozens of hostages who work at the plant. officials say at least two people were killed during the raid. the militants claimed the attack is revenge for france's military operation against rebels in neighboring mali. so again, all we know at this point is that they have escaped. we don't know their status at this point. richard haass, give us a sense of sort of set the scene, the landscape for us. >> algeria isn't the center, this is just a government that's willing to kill people who take hostages. this is a government that killed 100,000 people 20 years ago in the midst of a civil war. the story is mali, though. the breakdown of authority. yet again, you have a place that's essentially an ungoverned
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space kind of like yemen and somalia. you had a government that was democratically elected, overturned by a coup. now you have islamic radicals against them. you have bad guys and worse guys. the french have intervened. this is going to go on for a long time because you have no government to really partner with. so the french have bought into a very large undertaking. kind of like the united states and somalia years ago. >> okay. we'll be following this story, hoping here. still ahead, former senator jim demint joins the conversation. we're back in just a moment. [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters? at legalzoom, we've created a better place to handle your legal needs. maybe you have questions about incorporating a business you'd like to start. or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along, answer any questions and offer advice. with an "a" rating from the better business bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. in most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. get started at legalzoom.com today.
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when we come back, tom brokaw and reverend al sharpton join the table. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ aww man. [ male announcer ] returns are easy with free pickup from the u.s. postal service. we'll even drop off boxes if you need them. visit usps.com pay, print, and have it picked up for free. any time of year. ♪ nice sweater. thank you. ♪
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this will be difficult. there will be pundits and politicians and special interest lobbyists publicly warning of a
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tyrannical all-out assault on liberty. not because that's true but because they want to gin up fear or higher ratings or revenue for themselves. the only way we will be able to change is if their audience, their constituents, their membership says this time must be different. that this time we must do something to protect our communities and our kids. weapons designed for the theater of war have no place in a movie theater. a majority of americans agree with us on this. and by the way, so did ronald reagan, one of the staunchest defenders of the second amendment, who wrote to congress in 1994 urging them -- this is ronald reagan speaking -- urging them to listen to the american public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of military-style
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assault weapons. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house as the sun has yet to come up over washington. >> that's a beautiful shot of the white house. >> richard haass is still with us. and joining the table now, nbc news's tom brokaw and the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good to have you all on board, gentlemen. >> this guy -- this guy is fading away. >> what? >> he's fading away, man. >> i don't want to talk to you about that. i want you to be careful. >> we're going to get him a big steak. i've got to put some meat on those bones, man. what's wrong? >> you know i started a vegetarian diet, i work out, i feel great. >> he eats good. >> he's jealous. >> i'm uncomfortable with you being this healthy. >> i know. that's part of my inspiration is to make you uncomfortable. >> stop it right now. the president had a great day yesterday, didn't he? >> i was there, and he had some of the groups, both conservative and liberal, that the vice
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president had consulted with the national action network. tamika and i had been there. i was there and sat behind the families from newtown. and it was probably the most moving thing i've seen. particularly when he talked about the young lady, grace, and her parents were sitting right there. >> oh, my gosh. >> it was a moment that you remember the rest of your life, and i hope the nation never forgets. it was a great day. >> so we're talking about the emotional force of that story, and can it move gun legislation, tom brokaw, the kind of the magnitude that the president has proposed? can it move it forward intact? >> i was listening to my mentor, richard haass, in the earlier hour. and i thought that he summed it up, as i just told him, very well when he said this is a real intersection in contemporary political life about whether the national interests will be able to override the single interests
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in this country. we have been divided up by a lot of single interests. we've been left with the sum of our parts. richard used a phrase that i've been using recently which is that we need to spend a lot more time in the political arena, republican, democrat, tea party member alike, talking about big ideas that unite us, not small ideas that divide us. >> and by the way, tom, we're not just talking about the nra or gun lobbyists here. >> no. >> even though they are -- and a lot of my friends are saying, why do you keep using the word "extreme" next to nra on this issue? it's not because the second amendment, defending the second amendment, is an extreme proposition. most americans support it. it's just when you start talking about assault weapons and these high-capacity magazines. we could say the same thing, though, about aarp who puts out reckless, irresponsible 30-second ads every time somebody tries to save social security or medicare for the
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next generation. we could say the same thing about the defense industry. taxpayers keep paying for weapons systems we don't need anymore. >> and the same thing happens in the debate over climate change, for example. what i really think that we have to do is remind everyone that legislation alone is not going to solve this. this really has to be a holistic approach. that's the phrase of the day, in which everyone gets involved. left out of the discussion recently is the place of video games in our culture. the industry says we have nothing to do with it just like the nra said we have nothing to do with it. but that does not mean that every family doesn't have an obligation to deal with their children about these games and access to them and talk about the consequences of them. there's also something else we have to keep in mind. >> can i stop you first, though, on that? this is a very important point. because the liberals will salute me for talking about conservatives that take absolutist positions on the second amendment will then turn around and take absolutist positions on the first amendment
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that are not supported by 200 years of precedent coming from the supreme court. and they will say, well, there's nothing we can do about violent video games where kids like mine see millions of images of people being slaughtered over a decade or two. it's this absolutism that conservatives take on the second amendment, that liberals take on the first amendment that, again, is part of that special interest -- >> you remember when tipper gore wanted to have just a little insignia on an album that contained raw, violent language and after money marbles and chalk, it's that kind of discussion we've got to get back to, and it's got to be reasonable. i just pulled up yesterday, i was at the university of chicago with david axelrod at the institute of politics. we had a full-spectrum discussion on gun control and politics in american life. so i pulled up stan mcchrystal's statement here last week, which was very strong. and then i read all the
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reactions to it from the bloggers. and what you got -- and i raised this on the stage -- what you got were the guys who were saying, in effect, the old charlton heston line, you're going to have to pry my dead cold fingers, because when the government comes to my door, i've got to fight back. a very smart guy, steve chapman, said that's the exception. i spent a lot of time out there. there are a lot of people who believe that, and we've got to get beyond that discussion as well. and other nra members who are in the sporting weapons business, who are there because they like to get access to the information about hunting and the wide use of weapons, they've got to speak up. >> reverend al, i go back to the video games or movies or violence that's in the media, there is such a terrible response from those who want to defend the freedom of those things, that you can't even have a conversation.
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>> no -- >> it's obvious. >> i think that the abuse of the second amendment cannot be met with the abuse of the first amendment. >> right. >> i think -- >> you've talked about this, by the way. >> i've talked about it. i've even challenged rappers and artists and record companies. because you may think you have the right to say it. i have the right to oppose it. and i think the public has a right to say we're going to stop supporting those that do this. >> by the way, reverend, and you've talked about this, too, we're not talking about banning things. >> no. >> just like we're not talking about banning guns in the second amendment, we're not talking about banning violent video games, but the government has a right to regulate. they've got a right to regulate these things. they certainly regulate pornography. >> they regulate pornography, they regulate certain hate speech on the air. i think that they have an obligation to regulate some of this stuff that really suggests violence to these young kids.
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i mean, it is absolutely outrageous. and they act like there's some liberal or radical position to me distorts what we're about. just like you said on the conservative side, it distorts it to say i need an automatic weapon because the government's coming. like if the government was coming, they'd be knocking on your door with a rifle. i mean, if they were coming, there's a lot more ways to come than an automatic weapon wouldn't stop them. >> exactly. >> it's just a simple conversation. >> again, it's this absolutism on the left from people that are defending hollywood liberals. it's the absolutism on the right that are defending gun people. i mean, again, most americans are in the middle where ronald reagan was on assault weapons. >> yeah. >> where scalia is, where justice thomas is, where sam alito is. those are not liberals. >> yeah. and i think if you have children and they grow up and they start to be human beings just like all of us and have -- face life, you
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become very, very, very scared about the things that they are surrounded with, the people that they connect with, the music they listen to, the media they see. you want our society to help you. don't you? >> of course you do. but it might prove less difficult to regulate guns than expression. and this is where the president has to come out. he's got a jaw bone on this issue. this is where the oval office becomes a classroom. he's got to teach and he's got to make the case that there's a moral and social responsibility to get this right. and this is part of a national conversation. and this will actually help in dealing with gun control because it will show he's not just attacking one part of the problem. but we've got to have a national conversation, and now's the moment. very rarely in life do you get these big windows. and what happened in connecticut opened up a window for this kind of political change. we do not want to waste this moment. the president wants to make this something like a political campaign. he wants to go big on this because this is a rare moment, i
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think, to have a defining result for his presidency. >> yes, i agree. >> tom, we've been talking about the polls over the past several days that have been showing that 60% of americans support a ban on assault weapons. 85% believe we need universal background checks. 65% to 70% believe that we need to have a registration system, a database, that tracks gun sales. the numbers break in the way that i think the president would be helpful -- hopeful of. but on your argument that you made earlier about a holistic approach which we've all been saying around this table from the very beginning, the polls also show that americans don't think that guns by themselves are the main driver of violence. that it does have to do with violent culture. that it does have to do with mental health issues. that it does have to do with the coarsening of american culture. >> guns are the end game. >> exactly. >> that all leads up to it. and all these component parts claim it's not their responsibility. nra says it's not about the guns. it's about violence. it's about mental health.
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mental health people say we can't share information because we have privacy issues here. the video game industry says we have a right under the first amendment. reverend al, it reminds me a lot of what happened in the south in the 1960s during the civil rights movement. good people stayed in their houses and didn't speak up when there was carnage in the streets and the total violation of a fundamental rights of african-americans as they marched in selma, and they let connor and the redneck elements of the south and the klan take over their culture in effect and become of face of it. and now a lot of people who he know who grew up during that time have deep regrets about not speaking out. there were a few brave souls who did and they were knocked down pretty hard within their own communities for coming out and speaking out in a moderate way, not even in a liberal way about the right of african-americans to be able to vote, for example, and to walk into any restaurant they wanted to. but there was a lot of silence at the time. now it's time for the people who do have strong feelings, who are feeling that they can't do anything about it, to kind of band together and have something
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to say here. and again, it's got to be the whole approach. >> it's got to be holistic. tom, you're exactly right. and reverend al, also, as we pull back and not just look at the tragedy of newtown, which shocked us all, when you have people that are defending the most extreme positions by saying oh, well, this wouldn't have stopped newtown. none of these -- this is just a reaction, overreaction to newtown. no, it's not. you look back over the past year. this is about mass murders not only in first grade classes but in shopping malls in oregon, in places of worship in the midwest, in movie theaters, in colorado, this is becoming an exception. >> every day in chicago. it's happening every day in philadelphia. and i think that the only point that i would bring to the next step that richard haass said, yes, i think the president can do it from a bully pulpit in the oval office, but what about the
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pulpits in the churches every day? what about people in their homes in communities? and go to tom's point, we've got to build a people movement across political and religious lines, conservatives and liberals, and say wait a minute. we want to see this stuff stopped, hollywood. we want to see this stuff stopped in the tv world. all the way across the board, a holistic approach, but it must be people of conscience standing up saying these are our kids going to theaters, using these video games, and make the government deal with this. because as long as you have a violent culture, you're going to have people looking for instruments of violence to play it out. >> i know a lot of evangelical pastors. i grew up around them, in baptist churches. i know a lot of evangelicals that don't believe their neighbors need assault weapons to gun down u.s. troops when they come to their house. i know a lot of pastors that i
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believe should speak out against the more extreme elements. on the left, they should streak out against the extreme elements in hollywood. on the right, pastors should speak out, and ministers should speak out against the extremism. why do americans need high-capacity magazines? that will fire off 30 bullets? >> not just in the urban areas on the east coast but across the country, it has to become socially unacceptable. how do you make it that? >> and the same with hollywood. i'm glad you said that. it has to be socially unacceptable. and i can tell you, from my conservative friends in the deep south, it is. it is. for the majority of them, from what i've gathered over the past month. but you know what else has to be socially unacceptable? it's got to be socially unacceptable for something like quentin tarantino to be praised, to be lauded by "the new york times," by "the l.a. times," by "variety," by the entire
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hollywood culture because this man -- and i have seen it over the past decade with my own boys and all of their young friends -- this guy has made millions and millions of dollars selling graphic violence to young males in america and across the world. and he does it in a way that it actually gets -- the murders are punch lines. and yet this man is praised in hollywood. >> but what's legitimate? this is actually a debate about social legitimacy for us, about weapons, about violence, about culture. this is actually one of those turning points to some extent in american society. we are very different than most societies around the world here. in some cases i like those differences. american exceptionalism is a wonderful thing. this is actually an area where american exceptionalism is not a wonderful thing. this is where we really do need something of a national conversation. what's legitimate? what's the proper place p in our society for this? >> i bring up quentin tarantino. certainly "the new york times"
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and the hollywood establishment wouldn't embrace a pornographer. wouldn't desensitize towards sex, so why do we celebrate a man who celebrates graphic violence and makes millions off of it, tom? >> that's the point. and i really think it goes to the heart of the argument that richard has raised, and i've been talking about this around the country. what kind of a civilization are we? what do we represent in this country? we take great pride in being the paragon of rule of law and how we have weathered a lot of very strong divisions within america. i remember during watergate, for example, about how divided the country was. but then we had a president who was forced to resign and did so, and there were no tanks in the street. there was nobody claiming the white house on a militaristic way. so we have gone through a lot of difficult divisions before. and we've managed to stay within
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the rule of law and within the rule of civility that should be across the board in this country, whatever our particular feelings are. here's another question that we should be asking ourselves now. 40 years from now, historians will be looking back on our time. or 60 years from now. and what will they say about how we responded to this? it's not just about president obama. it's about all of us. >> or how we didn't respond to it. >> we're all on a dock here. and i think that's the question that we have to ask ourselves. and it has to be asked across the political and the cultural spectrum including the people who feel that they have a right to own an assault weapon and the people in their community who feel that they don't have a right to. there has to be this dialogue across the country in small western communities, in the south and in the big cities as well. as reverend al knows, there's no greater carnage from guns than in the inner cities of america. >> absolutely. >> 506 homicides last year in chicago, most of them in the inner city. >> i've just been reading
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about -- you all remember nickel mines, the shooting there, which was actually a handgun. it highlights -- and that was, i don't think, had the emotional force, the impact that newtown did because it was amish, and people didn't have a complete connection. but i go to lancaster county all the time and drove by that school all the time. that was a horror in lancaster county. and the mental health aspect of this is just as important. that doesn't mean you do nothing. the conversation continues. tom, stay with us. reverend al sharpton, you'll be back later this hour. thank you. coming up next, former senator from south carolina jim demint joins us. and later, "time's" rick stengel and "fortune's" andy serwer. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.
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22 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from washington, former republican senator of south carolina, jim demint. senator demint recently wrote about why he chose to leave the senate and head to the heritage foundation. in "the washington post," he wrote, in part, this. "the right ideas have the power to change the course of america, which is why the place to launch a conservative revival is the heritage foundation. it used to be said that willie mays's glove was where triples went to die. while congress has become the place where good ideas go to die. in contrast, think tanks such as heritage use objective analysis to discover buy ideas work or don't. conservative policies have proved their worth time and time again. if we're not communicating in a way that makes sense, that clear, we are doing a disservice to our fellow citizens. we need to test the market and our message to communicate more effectively."
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senator demint, i guess the first question would be, do you apply that -- do you apply that concept to guns? >> well, i've enjoyed hearing your discussion. the reason i left the senate is politics is mostly about knee-jerk reactions and pretense. but as tom brokaw said just a few minutes ago, this country needs big ideas that unite us. and what we do at heritage is focus on real substance and real soluti solutions. and on issues like violence and keeping our children safer, what we try to do at heritage and what we've been doing over the last several weeks is dig down and try to understand the real causes. and as you've all talked about today, the more you talk about it, the more you realize how complex the issue is. it involves cultural issues. it involves mental health issues, certainly violence and the tools that are used for it. so to jump straight to a solution is really political pretense. if we want to solve the
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problem -- and i've got four grandchildren the ages of these children, and i used to help run an elementary school, and i've dealt with the safety issue. so it's very close to my heart. and we need to do something to make our children safer, our schools safer, but we can't do it with just knee-jerk political reaction. we've got to do it with discussions like you're having this morning. and i want to be a part of understanding the real causes so that we can make our country safer. >> tom? >> senator, i remember when you were growing up, i know how old you are. we didn't need military assault weapons in our society. we didn't have these kinds of school shootings. we didn't have the kind of carnage that we have in the middle of a lot of our urban areas that are going on. so how do we address that outside of the legislative process? how do we get the country engaged in saying enough? and was newtown, in your judgment, a tipping point of some kind? >> well, tom, it's a good
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question. it's one i asked myself. and i have been looking at the last century, and heritage will come out with an initial discussion paper this week to really answer that type of question. actually, mass shootings peaked in 1929. and certainly assault weapons were involved with that. a lot of that was in chicago, organized crime. this is not a new phenomenon. last year we had a peak in the number of people who were killed in different incidents, but it's certainly not at an all-time high right now. it is a problem we have to deal with. and from the doors of the schools which just like the studio i just walked in, i walked past pretty heavy security to get in here, i can guarantee you every school in the country is working now to make their schools safer. but we need to do something at the community, state and federal level. it's a comprehensive plan. and every time something bad happens, i think it stirs us to
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do more. but i want to be a part of the solution, not just a political reaction. so i don't want to be out pretending that i understand what the right answer is. but it's a discussion we have to have, and we need to do better. >> so jim, we will invite you back after heritage has its proposals, when you have a proposal, in response to not only newtown but the shootings across america. and we're not going to waste time right now trying to pin you down on a specific because i think you've been quite clear this morning that you want to be part of the discussion. and you're not going to have any solutions today. that's fine. i want to expand this conversation, though. because a lot of people were fascinated when you left the senate. and wondered why you would leave the united states senate to go to a think tank. and when i -- when mika was just reading your statement, i was struck by what you were saying,
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how much it sounded like what so many senators that i talk to today say, especially senators who were governors first, who have told me to a person that the united states senate is an abysmal place to work, that very little gets done, and it is not the senate of old. was that your experience? >> well, i don't think anything good is going to come out of washington in the next few years. and the problem is, joe, as you know, you've been there. we too often try to have national solutions. when the solutions need to be at the community, the state level, the national government should focus on those things where there's a consensus nationally, where there's agreement going back to what tom said. we need to focus on those ideas that pull us together. and i think i've made a difference in the senate. i believe that we've got some
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great new senators that are going to change the tone. so i feel like we're going to make some progress there. but what i want to do is be part of a national discussion about positive, optimistic ideas that really solve problems, that make our country better. the heritage foundation has been doing that for 40 years. and they've focused on getting good policies to lawmakers. i want to take that message directly to the american people. i want to showcase successes at the state level that are already working. the ideas that you and i and many on the set today believe in are actually working all across the country in different states in different ways, and i think that's the way to pull people together. >> richard haass. >> what the center is really saying is that think tanks are the generators of ideas, and i'd like to agree with that. the real question is whether it's heritage, council on foreign relations, brookings, whether the political system is open to them. right now we'll be producing ideas. heritage says they'll do them on guns. others are doing it on the fiscal problem.
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you put it out, do ideas stand a chance? because at the end of the day, the senate are not debating societies. they're places where money and politics come to clash. do ideas really stand a chance? >> let's look quickly at what happened with chuck hagel. his name was put out there. we heard immediately from the political class in washington hagel was not going to pass. there was no way he was going to be confirmed. well, think tanks weighed in. people associated with think tanks weighed in. and what was a dead nomination two weeks ago was now an inevitability today. there can be some influence, right? >> i'd like to think so. work fair was an idea out there. ideas about privatizing social security came out of think tanks, places like heritage. the push against afghanistan, a lot of that was generated by people in the think tank world. i'd like to think that ideas in circulation actually really matter in this society. >> jim, heritage used to have a lot bigger impact on the
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conservative movement than they have in, let's say, the past ten years. i think back to the mid-'90s where, as you know, heritage was at the front. how do you revive heritage standing in the conservative movement? >> actually, a lot of our work has been at the state level, encouraging education choice, encouraging freedom to work where states that are bogged down with regulation and union barnacles are changing their laws so that it attracts businesses and create jobs and opportunities. so heritage, if we take our message more to the american people and prove the things we're talking about actually work, that's what puts pressure on washington. i've seen the same thing in electing people to the senate. the establishment in washington said you couldn't elect a conservative from pennsylvania. but if you take your message directly to the people, people like pat toomey can actually win elections. i'm convinced that if we take the right ideas, the right message to the american people,
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they'll pressure washington to do more, to pull things together that actually work for our country. so as ronald reagan used to say, if you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. i want to make them feel the heat from the american people. >> so senator, i'm just curious because you've been on the inside, and you're watching this gun debate from the outside of the halls of congress. what you think about the nra's response to everything since newtown? and could they be a better part of the conversation -- obviously, i have a very, you know, opposing point of view compared to what they stand for, but could they be a better part of the conversation had they acted differently? >> well, probably all players could. folks immediately jumped in on the left and the right, said here's what we have to do. here's what we can't do. and i think what you're starting to do this morning, i think what we're doing all over the country is stepping back, trying to have
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a discussion to dig down and understand the root causes and how we can over the short term and long term create a safer country for our children and all of our citizens. but there are a lot of things we need to have discussions about. i hoped this morning we could talk about another immediate issue in the congress of the large debt and the laws that keep us from borrowing more money and how both sides are responding. the things that we're talking about at heritage, and i think is common sense to americans, let's just put our country on a path to balance our budget over a ten-year period. that's not too much to ask. i think if we could come to that solution, that idea, you could -- you would find that we could work out the debt ceiling. we could put all this drama and theater aside. but anyone who thinks we don't ever need to balance our budget, i think has disqualified themselves from a discussion here. >> we will certainly continue that discussion even though we
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didn't talk about it that much this morning, moving forward. i think you and i certainly on that issue probably agree much on just about everything. thank you so much, jim demint. we greatly appreciate you being here. >> thanks, joe. >> i've got to say, tom, it is fascinating to me, disturbing, but fascinating how it's hard to find a senator that says, you know what? i love my job. i feel like i'm really accomplishing something. i get such depressing reports from inside the senate. and i know you do, too. >> i do. almost every senator i talk to just is enormously frustrated. a lot of them like demint are leaving. olympia snowe left because she felt she couldn't get anything done. she'll be replaced by angus king, an independent from maine. when she was leaving i thought to myself, who's going to take her place? then he realized he had a responsibility to step in. he claims that among the new
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senators that he's meeting down there, that there is a new will to take on some of the obstacles of getting anything done in the u.s. senate and beginning with the filibuster rules, about how they change that. the minority can't hold a majority hostage every time something comes to the floor. >> let's hope harry reid and the democrats pass filibuster reform. so what's coming up next? you've got a story you're really excited about coming up next. i'm sure we all be just as excited. >> i've been trying to get to it. up next, why coca-cola's new anti-obesity ads could backfire, resulting in more legal action. >> oh, please. >> against the soda maker. more. there already have been some lawsuits. that's next on "morning joe." [ dad ] find it? ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good.
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quiz, reverend sharpton. what is life? >> stop it. >> coke adds life. >> no. don't bring reverend al into this. >> i'd like to teach the world to sing. >> coca-cola -- wait. what? excuse me? reverend al? >> a program or something. >> right. you're going to fall for that? smart man like you? >> no, i didn't say that. >> okay. >> i said that they are -- they've reached out.
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>> they reached out. they care. maybe they care too much. >> coca-cola and other soft drink companies are engaging an aggressive pr campaign to shed their unhealthy image. and here is a recent ad from coke. look at it carefully. >> all calories count. no matter where they come from, including coca-cola and everything else with calories. and if you eat and drink more calories than you burn off, you'll gain weight. the well-being of our families and communities concerns everyone, and finding a solution will take continued effort from all of us. but at coca-cola, we know when people come together, we can make a real difference. >> i love it. >> okay. >> they're stepping up. >> one other thing i want to point out -- >> it's inspiring. >> -- including coca-cola, the first three, four, five seconds all the way up to "including coke." listen to this. >> all calories count, no matter where they come from, including coca-cola and everything else. >> are you kidding me? are you kidding me? >> all calories count. they do. all calories count. what? >> tom?
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>> what? >> all calories count? >> they do all count. >> no matter where they came from including coke? >> exactly. >> so they're all equally valuable. >> that's what they say, all calories count. >> yes, they do. they count up big when you drink a lot of coke. >> listen, i want to tell you something. when i was a kid, i drank five cokes a day, at least. and almost all my friends did as well. and we ran all day long. we had recess. we were out exercising. we were playing around. and when we went home to eat, we ate proportionally because it was a real working-class environment which i grew up. so you didn't have mounds of food on your plate. and there were no snacks in our house. we didn't have potato chips or cookies. my mother would bake cookies once a week and then you'd have them as a treat. it was a whole different eating plan even though we were knocking back cokes all day long. >> with all due respect, i've heard this from joe, that's great that you ran all day. wonderful. that about the kids over the past 10, 20, 30 years who drank
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five cokes a day and didn't do that. >> is that coke's fault? that's the question. >> actually, it's part of a bigger problem just like the gun debate, okay? >> look, i have friends at coca-cola and friends at most of the soft drink companies. i think you've got to give them credit for at least putting this out there and saying obesity is an issue in america, and calories do count, and we're now talking about it as a result of them doing that. and it probably will generate some kind of a dialogue. >> i'll give them credit skeptically because i think they're covering themselves. some people believe that coca-cola is trying to get in front of the obesity lawsuits. here's professor john banzaf from george washington university who has another opinion. "despite media speculation that coca-cola's new ad campaign is aimed in part at shielding it from obesity legal actions, that i think that, the ads may, in fact, trigger new fat lawsuits by providing a new basis for activist lawyers concerned about obesity. coke's new campaign states that all calories count, no matter where they come from, and suggests that the calories from
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its sugary soft drinks have no greater tendency to contribute to obesity in children and others than calories from other sources. but there is a growing body of evidence, and perhaps a consensus among impartial experts, that the calories found in sugary soft drinks are substantially more likely to contribute to obesity." >> how about personal responsibility? i use as my instant model the reverend al sharpton. >> exactly. >> who changed his eating hackett habits on his own and lost all that. >> al, tell me that the hell you lived through trying to make that happen and the resources that you had to use, trying to make that happen. tell me this was not easy and you snapped your fingers and said, i'm just going to be disciplined. >> nobody said that. >> i'm just going to be personally responsible. >> it's very difficult, but as you said, i think it's a bigger problem. i think that we live by our appetites rather than put a real health consciousness in our young people. i think that we live by habits.
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and i think that -- you know, i agree with you that we need to really deal with those that have been the ones that have helped get us here. but i also agree with tom. and i know people at coke and have worked with them on other issues, that there's going to have to be a meeting ground where everybody can come together and deal with a broader change of mind, even though we've got to look at people skeptically. >> you know, mika, what's my favorite coke? coke zero. or diet coke. zero calories. next -- >> those are not good for you either, tom. >> rick stengel will take us through the next issue, and i'm going to be drinking a big old coca-cola while he does it.
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but why are you so sure that there's no link between enjoying movie violence and enjoying real violence? >> i don't -- i'm going to tell you why i'm so sure, don't ask me a question like that. i'm not biting. because i'm here to sell my movie. this is a commercial for the movie. make no mistake. i'm shutting your butt down. >> the vice president is talking to people in the movie industry today about violence in response to the -- >> and you know where i stand on it. >> which is that there's no relationship. >> yes. >> but you haven't said why you think there's no relationship. >> it's none of your damn business about what i think about that. >> oh, my gosh. >> and it got more heated after that. and quentin tarantino has been so extraordinarily insensitive since newtown. and the reason why is he's made millions and millions of dollars peddling violent, hyper-violent movies to young males across america and the world. >> that was horrible. >> it gets worse. and yet this man is praised in hollywood.
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you see "the golden globes"? >> yeah, i did. >> they bowed to that man. bowed down to that man. >> the real trouble i have with that exchange is that he feels that he's immune from any criticism or from any dialogue, that he doesn't have to engage in it. as he said, i'm here to sell the movie, which is the attitude of a lot of people in hollywood. and when they appear for a television interview somewhere, they don't expect to be asked the kinds of questions that they don't want to answer. under the rules. >> that's the attitude of not only hollywood producers but video game makers and gun manufacturers. >> yeah. and republicans right after newtown, rick stengel joins us now -- >> and democrats right now in hollywood. >> and dem democrats right now. absolutely. i totally agree with you. this is the vicious circle we were talking about before newtown, before our hearts were broken, when it came to spending and the debt. and it was a vicious circle.
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and nobody really wanted anything to happen. that was the bottom line. the question is -- the question is, do we really want nothing to happen on this issue? joining us now, "time" magazine's managing editor, rick stengel, on your "the gun fighters." >> yes, mayor bloomberg, vice president biden and gabby giffords at the mall. and they obviously are the people who were a progressive standpoint are out front trying to make something happen to reduce gun violence, to fight against the nra. but, you know, ask i haven't been watching this morning and i know you have been talking about it. we also did a poll with cnn. and it's interesting that the american public is not mobilized around this issue. the majority of americans actually agree with the nra about putting armed guards in schools. only 39% of americans think that the prevalence of guns is the cause of gun violence in schools. only something like 29% think
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greater gun control will be a solution for that. the ideological battle which the president has talked about is not by any means won at all. and, in fact, the gun control advocates have lost ground over the last 10, 15, 20 years. and that's the reality of it. >> and we have been talking about a holistic approach that needs to be taken. and you look at the specifics, whether you talk about assault weapon bans or registration or whether you talk about background checks. those numbers have gone up a great deal. >> yes, yes. and it's funny, because you see a divide now. because in terms of background checks and all of that, they are very high. they're unanimous. more than 50% of gun owners approve of that as well. but the notion that there is a causal relationship between the amount of guns in our society and gun violence is not something that people necessarily accept. in fact, one of the things, i think, that the president did by executive order, which was terribly important, which is not getting a lot of attention, is
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allowing the cdc to actually look at statistics and study the relationship between the prevalence of guns and gun violence. because part of the problem is, it's been -- a., it's difficult to research. you can't do double blind testing, obviously, with guns. and because people on the right and the nra haven't wanted actual research, there isn't an enormous amount of social science that actually shows the causal relationship between guns and violence. >> the president wants to get that, he's going to get that. micha michael sheerer writes, this the president doesn't expect to win judgments soon. instead wants to change the entire conversation about guns in america. republicans in both chambers resisted to betraying a key constituency will have to feel the sting of sustained public outrage for the effort to succeed. and i've been saying over the past couple weeks, republicans can choose. >> right. >> they can either have a gun control law pass under john boehner's speakership or stick their heads in the sand and have
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it pass under nancy pelosi's speakership. they're playing -- it's the long play. >> i have a question for you. what do you think the polls would have shown before "madd" was organized to have a campaign against drunk driving about whether you could have an open container in your car or whether it's wise to drive after having a couple shooters in a bar. or whether you're going somewhere and somebody in the back seat has a six-pack. what do you think the polls would say about that? >> all of that matters. and i think what the -- undertone of what the president was saying, he has to marshal this kind of cultural battle. it's not automatic. we can sit here in midtown manhattan where everybody would agree with us. but outside of here, not everybody does. in fact, there is an amazing statistic that shows that 23% of people in our poll call the availability of guns as the cause of gun violence compared with 37% who pointed to parenting and 37% who talked
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about public culture. >> but rick, i've got to bring this up too. i love that you're bringing up counterintuitive polls. but you're saying polls show that 55% of americans support stronger gun control laws, 56% of americans think it is too easy to buy guns under existing laws. >> yes. and that goes to what you were talking about before, about more stringent registration, better mental health care, knowledge that would be disseminated. but this notion that guns are somehow unpopular. our polls show that 47% of americans own a gun. >> 90% of americans think that americans should get background checks from -- have background checks when they buy guns. >> now ask about whether they think there should be an assault weapons ban. >> with, 60%, according to another poll. >> it has to happen. >> wow, incredible conversation. on the new cover of "time." >> there is a great story by
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eamon at that riply about how it's very difficult in a gun fight, even for police officers and trained people to hit their target. >> rick stengel, thank you so much for being with us. what's up next, mika? >> the best companies to work for. we'll look at who is topping the list ahead on "morning joe." >> comcast has to be number one. ♪ with the spark miles card from capital one, thor gets great rewards for his small business! your boa! [ garth ] thor's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day!
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up next, love is blind. especially when you've never
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seen your girlfriend. we'll break down the really strange saga of notre dame, the star of manti te'o saying now he was duped into believing he was in a relationship with a woman who never existed. we're back in just a moment. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal. intermezzo should not be taken if you have taken another sleep medicine at bedtime
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city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on-set, we have richard haass, richard wolffe. and in washington, kelly o'donnell. >> morning. >> but -- >> kelly -- >> hang in there for a second. >> for a minute. i don't know if i told you. >> no. >> no, this will work. >> no. last week -- >> uh-uh. >> hold on. i'm going to be strong. i was behaving the way i did last week. >> oh, no. please don't do that. >> you knew an orphan, okay? we were friends for a long time. willie knows her. her name was annie. >> little red head. curly red head. >> no longer with us. i can't do this. >> is that what the reason was? >> holy cow, willie, what happened? this story! this story. holy -- >> i feel somebody is very disturbed and i'm not sure who. >> well, we all are. but this guy is really disturbed.
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>> first thing -- >> you've got to explain. set this story up, man. it's notre dame. they defended this guy. >> might be disturbed too. >> the father. what about the father -- >> he talks about these kids meeting. >> stanford. >> i was going to be his father, and her father-in-law. i guess that's not happening -- >> first things first. who is manti te'o. all-american linebacker for notre dame, tradition rich football program in all of the country. the new york yankees. >> the heisman, man. >> won every defensive award, best player in the country on defense, second in the heisman, unheard of for a defensive player. and part of his story throughout the season was that in september, of last year, at the beginning of the season, his grandmother died and then his girlfriend died within hours of each other. >> horrible story. >> the reports range from hours to a couple days. >> and you were watching, and you cried. >> can i just say, so my son
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joey scarborough said there is something wrong with this guy. and he told me months ago. and i'm watching espn. over the holidays. and because i was -- let's show the story -- you know. and they tell this story. and he's like -- and then i get a call the next morning, and it was like, no, no, no. and i started tearing up. and i was like -- and then they showed him running on to the field. and i was like, how did the guy do that the week after he found out that his grandmother and his girlfriend died. and then he went on to say he played for her the day they buried her, man. it was the most remarkable story. and i -- i actually called joey up and said you're sick, man. this guy is a guy of tremendous -- i'm just -- to let people know. >> how taken in. >> and guess what? i was taken in. fans across america were taken in. and most importantly --
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>> you wanted to be taken in. >> shut up. is that how you all finish -- what does that even mean? is that what you say in great britain to sound deeper? or something? because it doesn't work on this side of the pond. but anyway -- >> you want to believe. more importantly, espn fell for it, cbs news. >> why wouldn't you, they told the story. >> everybody fell for it. man. so what happened? >> one of the guys who interviewed him, the interview you're talking about on espn, gene wojiehowski tried to find an obituary, some record of this woman having died. and couldn't find it. this all comes, we should point out from deadspin, the sports website. november of 2009. manti te'o and lennay kekua meet after the stanford game. they become a couple around the
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same time, early in 2012, around the same time she was injured, reportedly, in a car accident. september 11th of 2012, te'o's grandmother and lennay kekua die, according to reports. december 6th, te'o receives a call from kekua's phone. >> okay, before we blow through this. >> yeah. >> just to explain how everybody was taken in on this hoax and how sick of a hoax it was and he was playing along with it. so everybody finds out that they both die. suddenly, all of the notre dame students start wearing leis. and he gives this emotional, tearful statement at a pep rally, saying "now i know why i came to notre dame." after the michigan game. michigan fans rose to their feet. notre dame fans rose to their feet. the coach, the notre dame coach. they all just -- they just -- it
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was sick, man. and they all wallowed in it. and he let this go on and on and on. as did notre dame. >> so this boils down to a question. do you believe that he was a victim of an elaborate and cruel and awful hoax, as notre dame's athletic director laid out last night in a press conference at 8:00 eastern time, or did manti te'o cook this thing up with the help of some other people, as the deadspin report -- >> deadspin says he knows the guy. >> did he cook this up and if you believe that, the question is why? why would he go that far? >> willie, even after he knew that this was a hoax, the girl called back and said she was alive, he still went out there saying "i hate cancer. it took my girlfriend." >> no, there's no way. >> and what about his father saying about the time they met and he knew they were going to be -- you know. he said i thought that i was
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going to be her father-in-law. >> okay. get me to the coach defending who in that sound bite. >> and this is what is really disturbing. that's athletic director defending this. and why would they do it, willie, when they know this is going to keep unraveling. >> he says they launched their own investigation. and -- it's not going to be made public, for one thing. though he laid out -- >> favorite kind of -- >> he laid out a few headlines yesterday. this was cooked up by somebody else and that he was a victim, essentially. te'o put out a statement, saying he's embarrassed by the whole thing, embarrassed to talk about it. but he said he developed a relationship. and as that athletic director said last night, it was purely online and over the phone. >> what about the sound bite where he said he was talking -- getting the support from her family? was that online too? like he had an online relationship with a woman and her parents and siblings? like never humanly -- he made that -- okay. >> as the "new york times" was reporting this morning, he told the story and let others tell the story of how he would be on
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the phone with this girl all night as she was fighting leukemia. and whenever she would hear him breathing on the phone, she would stabilize in her coma. there ain't no -- >> give her facetime or just -- >> i would like to say to my friends at notre dame, who i love, the same thing i said to my friends at penn state, another institution i loved early on. you had better handle this upfront. other news. president obama plans to introduce legislation next week, calling for the biggest changes to gun laws this country has seen in two decades. yesterday, the president surrounded by children, who wrote him letters after newtown, urged congress to take action on a number of proposals, including universal background checks for anyone buying a gun, restoring the ban on military-style assault weapons and limiting
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magazines to ten rounds. giving law enforcement additional tools to prosecute gun crimes and improving the mental health system for young people. >> so let's look at all of those items up there. richard wolffe, every one of them has overwhelming support of the american people. universal background checks. 85% of americans support that. restoring a ban on military-style assault weapons. that's a 60/40 proposition now. limiting magazines to ten rounds. almost 7 in 10 americans support that. additional tools for law enforcement. you know that's got to be an 80/20, 90/10 issue. the same with improving mental health services. i bring these issues up only to say, once again, my republican party, like notre dame, better tread very lightly. they better be very careful that you've wandered in and followed the nra who has made some horrible pr mistakes over the past month. republicans better be careful
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and think twice before they make their next move. >> right. remember, one of the reasons the numbers are so high on background checks is because most people believe that those background checks already happened. >> right. >> they don't think that's a schang in the law. >> right. so you're on really weak ground when people haven't got a clue. and they actually support something they think is law. so the education part of it is one aspect of it. but you've also got the sheer power, the emotion of the 9/11 families' style approach where you've got the sandy hook families coming in. it's very hard to oppose -- it's not about the president. you've got -- it's not even about bloomberg's money that's going to go into the advertising. the emotional force of the sandy hook families is just like it was with the 9/11 families. and republicans have got to face up to that. frankly, democrats have to face up and grow a spine here, as well. they have run away from the gun debate for 20 years or so, because it's helped them get into power.
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>> by the pay, there are 30 to 40 democrats who will also fight any reasonable, rational reforms. you know, one of the moments yesterday, richard, which i thought was really telling, one of the president's strongest moments, if you have a congressman or congresswoman that supports assault weapons, ask them why. see, that's where the extremists -- that's where the survivalists lose this argument. why do you need an assault weapon? why do you need a high-capacity magazine? you start talking to them, and it always goes back to the same thing. always. it's either, one, i like target practice. it's fun. that's number one. that's certainly not a reason to protect that right. number two, they say after much prodding, because i'm afraid one day the government may come after me and i will need to use
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my assault weapon on u.s. soldiers that are coming to my house. they don't say it exactly that way. but that's what it always boils down to. and that's -- republicans need to understand, that at the end of the day, that's just a losing argument. >> well, it's a slippery slope argument and the danger for that for the nra, essentially by saying any gun control is unacceptable, it puts itself outside the substantive argument. and that's actually a risky strategy. i actually thought yesterday was an interesting day in american politics. i thought it was actually a really big, bold, comprehensive proposal by the president, which is good. it gives you a narrative. if the problem is that big, you actually need a big proposal to match it. it also gives you some room for compromise. there's a great line in robert car row's latest biography of johnson where they're talking about how big to be on civil rights. and one of the so-called wise men goes to johnson and basically said, that's not practical. it's a worthy cause but a lost cause and johnson turns around and goes, what the hell is the
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presidency for? i actually thought yesterday was an interesting day. it was one of the days where compare it to the state of health care reform. this was a big idea and the president went out with an ambitious proposal. there is a big story behind it. the question in american politics now is whether he can match the intensity of the nra. what matters is not simply 60/40, 70/30 in polls, you know that. can he mobilize on a sustained basis, people who really care about the future. >> and this is another reason why it's such a game-changer. because so many people have been engaged by the sandy hook massacre. whatever the nra spends, people that want sensible gun safety laws are going to spend three, four, five times as much. and mika, also the argument that there's a slippery slope and if you get rid of these military-style assault weapons, and the magazines, the high-capacity magazines, that you somehow don't love or support the second amendment, well, that would suggest the same of ronald reagan, of ant
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then scalia, clarence thomas, justice roberts, samuel alito, all these hard-core conservatives who said the second amendment is not about protecting somebody's right to have military-style assault weapons. >> so the question is, you've got the power of the nra versus the power of the emotional force, richard, you were talking about. and kelly, the president outlined 23 executive orders. tell us about those. but first, what do you make, and what are you hearing on capitol hill about the possibility of this legislation as it stands, as he presented it, going through? >> well, one of the things i think we really have to watch are senate democrats, because we know that the house run by republicans is not going to jump to take any specific action. speaker boehner's office says they're going to wait and see, what does the senate do, and then consider it. so that's sort of a real signal there won't be any action on the house side. so if you look at senate democrats, what are they
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prepared to do, and from talking to people what we expect is over the next couple of weeks, it won't be instantaneous, they're going to meet as a group and try to make a big decision about should this be a comprehensive package, the kind of sweeping sort of discussion the president put forward or should they try to take pieces? and i think there will be a lot of pressure to look at it in terms of taking pieces, going one step state at a time. and the thing that comes to come up most often, we're beginning to see some consensus is around the universal background checks idea you were talking about. there are republicans who will support that, democrats who are known to be in sort of the gun community willing to look at that. and then when you consider things like how can they address funding for mental health issues, that's one thing you hear conservatives talking about, looking at underlying causes. and we're really going to have to measure how much public support for some of the changes the president has talked about can impact these lawmakers. many of whom believe that apart from the intense emotion of these days, that there are
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constitutional issues here, there are things to cause them to go slowly. so we'll have to watch this. but really, senate democrats will be key. when we come back, "fortune's" list of the top companies to work for. we'll find out who is topping the list. also, the creative director of american "vogue" magazine. grace coddington will be here to discuss her new memoir. >> i'm really excited. my sweater set. >> listen, don't mess with her. everyone, please follow my lead. don't embarrass me. >> i think she will like my sweater. >> please, don't embarrass me. >> cinnamon roll. >> all right. let's go to bill karins for a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, everyone. washington, d.c. is in a snow drought. they haven't had 2 inches of snow in a very long time. that means no sledding for the kids. they have a chance of snow with the southern storm, but it's not looking good. i actually think you have a better chance of sledding tomorrow in raleigh and richmond
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than in d.c. let me explain. right now it's plenty warm in the southeast. we're in the 50s in areas where it's going to snow tonight. raleigh and charlotte to asheville. but the cold air is right behind. look at memphis and jackson. that's where the snow is currently, right around jackson, mississippi up to tupelo. and we've had reports of about a half inch through inch-and-a-half through mississippi. the roads and highways doing okay. tonight that expands. look at all the pink. that's winter storm warnings from the northern portions of georgia, but especially the mountains of north carolina, virginia, all the way into the areas around richmond to raleigh, just south of d.c. around fredericksburg. but for d.c. itself, i think an inch or less. atlanta, not looking for much for you either. but definitely 2 to 4 inches likely at the tail end of this storm. it's going to rain today, change the snow tonight. you'll wake up to snow on your cars. and especially the grassy surfaces. many areas of north carolina and virginia. so it will be gone in a hurry as we go throughout the day tomorrow, and then the weekend
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looks okay. but again, tomorrow morning at this time, big travel headaches for our friend in the south who haven't driven on the snow yet this year. that changes tonight. beautiful shot of d.c. on this cloudy day. sorry, kids, no snow for you. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] don't just reject convention. drown it out. introducing the all-new 2013 lexus ls f sport. an entirely new pursuit.
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♪ we take the chocolate, we form it into the m & m shape, we roll it through a screen, and then in that screen the m & ms
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come out the other end. after the product is finished, we take it to the packaging room where we weigh it out into an individual bag and in that process, we weigh it out to exactly can match the size that fits in that bag and deliver that product to the consumers. we make approximately 2 billion m & ms every eight hours. that is a lot. >> okay. that was an inside look at an m & m plant. i do love m & ms. >> yes. >> but you can only have one. >> it's privately owned by mars. mars is featured in "fortune's" latest issues of the 100 best companies to work for. the great "fortune" magazine, managing editor, and brian shactman, as well. let's get right into it, man. number one with the bullet google. >> googles is back. number one last year. you heard about the google plex in silicon valley like a college
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campus, beautiful, all kinds of incredible facilities. people are playing volleyball, looks like a day at the beach. >> that's exactly what we do in our office downstairs. >> and buses to bring you there. but guess what, people are working 16 hours a day so they take time off. they just built a new seven-acre gym facility and it's got roller hockey. >> what about s.a.s.? >> s.a.s. is an analytic software company in north carolina that's been on this list for a long time. it's a private company, very pa turnistic in the best sense of the word, a new organic form for their kitchens. you start at a high level with good paying commissions and then you add stuff and then you keep adding every year. none of these companies are resting on their laurels because they keep having to get the best employees. >> let's talk about wegman's, man. turnover is low. what is wegman's doing right?
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>> wegman's treat their employees well. give each other gift cards. relatives work there. it's another one of these places. it's not like the hr -- most companies, the hr departments, what do they do, they fill out forms. i'm sorry to the hr people out there, but it's true. the hr departments at these companies work as hard -- hello, right, they actually work it. >> ibm said the single most important hire you make is head of your hr department. >> he knew what he was doing. >> wegman's and a google, a grocerier and one of the biggest companies in the world. when you rank these things, how do you reconcile? >> well, we have a whole quantitative and qualitative way of doing this. a great place to work and institute in san francisco goes through and surveys employees and they also have a way of looking at the various benefits. but they're both service companies, right? there are a lot of service companies. you don't see a lot of smokestack companies in here. a lot of silicon valley companies. >> joe wants to know, how
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important is the food as a determinant of your rankings? >> food is -- >> and what kind of food? good food? >> good food for you. google has pretty good food. >> free food. homplths is the one that has the cereal bars? that's where i want to work. >> that's bloomberg. >> looking for a job, and i totally -- >> cereal bars. >> pigd out -- >> what about whole foods? i see whole foods on your cover. what kind of company are they to work for? >> whole foods is a company where, you know, it's been a company that's growing. it's a company where obviously they do have a lot of healthy food. mika likes whole foods a lot, i'm sure. >> oh, my gosh. we have the ceo of whole foods on tomorrow. john macke. >> mercedes-benz, how are they would to work for? on the cover as well. >> they have a situation where they have been expanding in the united states, treat their employees very well. and maybe you get some discounts on their cars. >> so i don't see it here, but i'm sure you guys -- >> well, separate issue. >> what are the worst companies to work for?
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what companies actually keep people working 16, 17 hours a day? >> colorado come on, you must know. >> i think enron was on that list. >> come on. >> give me another one. >> bernie madoff's company -- >> what about comcast? >> this is one of the best 100 companies to work for. and comcast must be 101. >> it is a good company. >> if it's gone done, it's only because i'm working here now, richard. >> that was a golden era, that comcast -- no. brian roberts i'm sure is watching. >> he's great. >> yeah. something to shoot for, to move up the list. >> brian, are you happy? >> at comcast? i'm thrilled. >> you're com castic. >> not a single complaint. >> cast no aspersions. >> we have a yogurt parfait and the food isn't free. >> do they have soda here? >> we do have a lot of soda. >> small-sized.
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>> a couple years ago, gave us a couple pizzas after we were number one. >> that gets the he is pre de core going. >> a guy jumping into some m & ms here. tell me about mars. people running around there, call themselves martians, only a 5% turnover. another great company to work for. >> mars is an amazing story. the third-largest private company in the united states after coke industries and cargill. that's $33 billion in sales so bigger than starbucks or mcdonald's or general mills but very, very secretive. it's in northern virginia. it's interesting, right near the cia and people say there's -- like willie wonka a little like that. >> several companies on your list are private. do private companies have something special going for them that helps? >> that's a really good point. there's a large number of these that are private. and i think, you know, mars said it. we're not beholden to the tyranny of quarterly earnings. we can invest in our companies, treat our employees really well. we don't have to worry about laying people off. and praying to the god of wall
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street -- it's just -- i'm telling you, that stuff gets worse and worse all the time. >> so let me ask you -- >> very good point. >> another story in here that is fascinating about samsung crushing the competition. you ask is apple next. i bring this up, because, of course, several -- you know, a couple months ago we saw the case. >> yeah. >> about how we heard samsung might be driven from business because apparently their smartphones copied from the iphone. but things seem to be going really, really well for them right now. >> well, that litigation is outstanding. but, you know, and ongoing, i should say. but in the rest of the world, it's not so important. that's number one. number two, it's not possible that the u.s. government is going to shut samsung down from distributing phones in the united states. not going to happen. and samsung is beating apple and smartphones and the rest of the world. they're neck and neck in the united states. and droids are a very, very compelling product versus these iphones. >> --
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>> the galaxy note 2. apple has already reported they're ordering less supplies, they think demand is dipping. everyone you talk to seems to like samsung. and now people say blackberry has a chance to survive with the blackberry 10. it's funny how in a year this impen tratable apple looks vulnerable. >> the real pressure for apple is to come up with the new thing, once again the market maker. two existing markets increasing mature and crowded. >> what's happening at apple? you were close to steve jobs. >> i don't know about close but i knew him. >> he had a lot of access to him. that company has undergone a lot of bumps in the road since he died. >> i think it's expectations. apple is still doing well but such a high level. they need to come up with the next great thing. that's the thing about steve jobs. this company is done, created the ipod, nothing left.
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whoops, you didn't imagine the ipad. you didn't imagine the iphone. there may be something in the works. apple tv, of course, is what people are talking about. they will revolutionize tv. everyone is going to have an apple television in their homes in four years. is that possible? i don't know. >> we could be seeing the erosion, everything you had in the pipeline, could start to see the effects of him not being there. >> absolutely. >> and i covered both the iphone and ipad launch. i remember holding the ipad and thinking this is so -- i guess it's kind of cool. i didn't see what it was capable of doing. >> i was with you. when i first saw the ipad, i was like come on, what is -- >> play scrabble. >> and now i get the little lodge i tech connector and take it with me. i don't use my -- >> when is the last time -- >> i put it up and type. i will tell you this, you hate to say this, because you never know what would have happened if he had lived. i find it hard to believe that steve jobs would have allowed the iphone5 to come out the way it was, with a different plug.
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and almost no technological advance. i was ready for the next big thing. i was ready for suri to really work and make the key board obsolete. i'm serious. when they can make the key board obsolete they're on top of the world. >> i don't use suri. kind of a gimmick, right? and i think that's right. we'll never know, of course. but tim cook, the ceo of apple has impossible shoes to fill. i mean, because this guy, steve jobs, was a genius, the thomas edison of our time. we all know about that. and meanwhile, you know, samsung, with their phones, with their droids, with their galaxy tablets, they make all the parts, unlike apple. they make everything that goes into this thing. they have a big advantage there. >> so they can fine-tune the concept. the new issue for "fortune" is the 100 best companies to work for. andy, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, she is a legend in the fashion industry. now out with a new memoir, the
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creative director for "american vogue" magazine, grace coddington joins us on-set on "morning joe." ♪ using cloud computing and mobile technology, verizon innovators have developed a projective display for firefighters. allowing them to see through anything. because the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. powerful answers. verizon. olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ]
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♪ i have to have a little
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freedom to play around. >> grace, there's a lot of wearable things in this. and i want this to be more wearable than not. >> i started working for "american vogue" the same day as anna did. i think we understand each other, pretty much. just through, you know, living together for 20 years. >> i don't believe for one minute that i have a sense of what's going to happen or a sense of real change the way grace does. grace is a genius. and there is no one that can visualize a picture or understand the direction of fashion or produce a great shoot. i mean, she's just remarkable. >> that she is. she is remarkable. that was a scene from the 2009 documentary, the september issue that featured the fashion titans of "vogue." anna wintour and grace coddington. and with us is grace coddington, author of the new book "grace: a
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memoir" which i can't wait to read. when did it come out? is this its debut day? >> no, it came out in november. >> november, okay. i can't wait. i -- i was very nervous about what to wear today when i heard you were going to be in. >> you look great. >> i was too. so i -- >> you've done very -- >> i went with a blue sweater. >> how did joe do. >> you know i like black. >> i know you do. but i think blue may be the new black. >> see, you messed it up. >> remarkable praise going for ms. wintour. talk about your relationship. what's made the relationship work so well over time? >> i think we're both sort of very patient with each other. we have known each other for one hell of a long time. longer than she or i would really like to admit. but -- and we have just grown to understand each other. we know how much to push each other, you know.
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and i'm kind of outrageous with her. >> can you talk to her in an elevator? >> oh, stop that. >> did you see the scene in the movie? >> yes, exactly. >> well, that was a bad day. >> okay. which, of course, they caught. of course you can. >> it's funny you say that, because we never have bad days here. we just get along so perfect -- richard and i, andy, joe. we all just -- it's all sunshine and roses all of the time. >> it wasn't a bad day with her, it was just a bad day. >> so let me ask, in your book, especially at the end, i'm told you reflect on beauty. especially from your perspective and the work you have done, how does the definition of beauty -- how has it evolved or changed, or has it? over time. >> yeah. i mean, those things that are in and out of fashion, you know, i -- i talk about more or less i make up. for me, beauty is the person.
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i mean, i don't love plastic surgery. i like how people are. i like the imperfections of people. i like not too much makeup. your makeup people wanted to give me a makeover this morning. i had to persuade them i wanted to be just the way i am. i think it's important that you don't try to hide behind makeup and things. i think -- you know, and the whole body shape thing is important too. you know, you -- i know there's a lot of things about fat people and thin people and i mean, i'm glad you look at both ends of the -- in fashion so much is -- they talk so much about anorexia but there is the other side, as well. >> right. >> so i think, you know, it's about being comfortable in your
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body. >> and that's the beginning. >> that's all important, yeah. and then, obviously, you have to do something that doesn't make you sick. >> right. >> either way. >> let's talk about your career when you made the jump, and it's quite a jump, not a lot of people can do it, from being in front of the camera to being behind the camera. >> yeah. >> were you relieved when that day came and british "vogue?" >> no, i never quite gave up. for quite a while, i kind of snuck into my own pictures. >> because there is nobody to tell you to get out of the picture. >> well -- >> nobody is going to say, get her off the set. >> well, you know, i don't know -- you just reach a point where you see other people come along, and they're more interesting and they haven't bored everybody to death by being in tons of pictures and things. so it's always good to see a fresh face. so it was okay. i was very comfortable. it was a point in my life where
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i thought it was a good time to settle down. and i thought being a fashion editor was settling down. but little did i know, you know -- actually, i traveled much more since i've been a fashion editor. than when i was a model. that's the time thing. >> you had to make that transition, from behind the camera -- in front of the camera to behind the camera. but another transition was following and being basically at the cutting edge of british fashion. and suddenly coming to america and starting, i believe, in '88. >> that was a huge, huge -- >> talk about that transition and how did you make that transition? was it difficult? >> well, that also, i was eased into. because i started probably, i don't know, six or seven years before i came to live in america. i started coming to see american fashion. and i was one of the first -- actually, the first journalist from europe that reported american fashion. and when i first started coming,
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nobody came from europe to see the fashion shows. >> well, because we were wearing leisure suits. and silk shirts. >> maybe you were. >> they're still in his closet. >> exactly. i said we were. i guess i should have been saying that in past tense, guys. i'm sorry. >> they're never out of fashion. i resemble that remark. >> no, i use my way, and i started working with a lot of american photographers, and namely bruce weber, who introduced me to so many fascinating people, you know. i mean, great artists and writers and -- i mean, introduced -- showed me, not -- i mean, a lot of them were dead. but, you know, he gave -- he taught me all about american culture. and i started to find it really fascinating. i mean, just broadened my whole outlook on everything. and i started having this great love for america, you know.
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and it was -- it's a different way of thinking, it's a different way of dressing. since i'm in that business. and i really began to embrace it. so it was quite natural to come and live here. >> right. >> is there anything that you discovered about yourself that was reveltory when you were putting together this memoir? >> discovered about myself. i don't know -- >> it's an american question. >> it is an american question. can you say that in english? no. i mean, because americans always dig deep. and i just tried to talk -- i mean, i don't dig very deep in this memoir, actually. i want some people to have fun reading it. there's no hidden meaning behind anything. it is what it is. and, you know, some things were too personal. i don't dig deep into them.
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and sink into the depths of sadness or something. >> that's what we do here every morning. >> i noticed. >> trying to depress people. >> joe digs deep. >> i don't know. i mean, i discovered that i could put a few words together, which i didn't know i could, you know. >> i really appreciate your coming on the show today. the memoir is "grace". thank you so much, it's a pleasure to meet you. >> thank you so much. >> thanks. up next, the entire fleet of boeing 787 dream liners get grounded by the faa after a series of technical problems. business before the bell is next. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life.
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so worldwide grounded boeing's entire fleet of 787 dreamliners. not good for boeing. >> couldn't be worse. this is the big thing. and, you know, that's the question. the problem is, you have a plane with a problem, it's not a pc with a problem. a pc with a problem, okay, we'll fix t. >> i've got a cell phone with a problem. >> right. >> so -- but a plane with a problem? >> are consumers going to call and ask, do you fly boeing planes or airbus planes -- if it comes to that, that is just really, really, really bad. and, know, may be getting to that. because they've got headline problems. >> what happened? >> well, they outsourced this -- the manufacturing of this at the a lot of different places. they put it together. they were very proud of that fact, that it came from all over the place. but, you know, hello, you're going to introduce a whole lot of problems when you do that. >> it is a mess. thank you so much. we will be right back with more "morning bell". she knows you like no one else.
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coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today, including the answer to the question, why is this polar bear here? >> that sucks. >> we'll be right back.
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